[36,20] οὕτως οὖν καὶ τὴν πόλιν φασὶν εἶναι πλῆθος ἀνθρώπων ἐν ταὐτῷ κατοικούντων ὑπὸ νόμου διοικούμενον. ἤδη οὖν δῆλον ὅτι τῆς προσηγορίας ταύτης οὐδεμιᾷ προσήκει τῶν καλουμένων πόλεων τῶν ἀφρόνων καὶ ἀνόμων. οὔκουν οὐδὲ περὶ Νίνου εἴη ἂν ὁ ποιητὴς ὡς περὶ πόλεως εἰρηκώς, ἀφραινούσης γε αὐτῆς. ὥσπερ γὰρ οὐδὲ ἄνθρωπος ἐκεῖνός ἐστιν ᾧ μὴ πρόσεστι τὸ λογικόν, οὕτως οὐδὲ πόλις, ᾗ μὴ συμβέβηκε νομίμῳ εἶναι. νόμιμος δὲ οὐκ ἂν εἴη ποτὲ ἄφρων καὶ ἄκοσμος οὖσα. (36,21) ἴσως οὖν ζητήσαι ἄν τις, εἰ ἐπειδὰν οἱ ἄρχοντες καὶ προεστῶτες ὦσι φρόνιμοι καὶ σοφοί, τὸ δὲ λοιπὸν πλῆθος διοικῆται κατὰ τὴν τούτων γνώμην νομίμως καὶ σωφρόνως, τὴν τοιαύτην χρὴ καλεῖν σώφρονα καὶ νόμιμον καὶ τῷ ὄντι πόλιν ἀπὸ τῶν διοικούντων· ὥσπερ χορὸν ἴσως φαίημεν ἂν μουσικόν, τοῦ κορυφαίου μουσικοῦ ὄντος, τῶν δὲ ἄλλων ἐκείνῳ συνεπομένων καὶ μηδὲν παρὰ μέλος φθεγγομένων ἢ σμικρὰ καὶ ἀδήλως. (36,22) ἀγαθὴν μὲν γὰρ ἐξ ἁπάντων ἀγαθῶν πόλιν οὔτε τις γενομένην πρότερον οἶδε {θνητὴν} οὔτε ποτὲ ὡς ἐσομένην ὕστερον ἄξιον διανοηθῆναι, πλὴν εἰ μὴ θεῶν μακάρων κατ´ οὐρανόν, οὐδαμῶς ἀκίνητον οὐδὲ ἀργήν, ἀλλὰ σφοδρὰν οὖσαν καὶ πορευομένην, τῶν μὲν ἡγουμένων τε καὶ πρώτων θεῶν χωρὶς ἔριδος καὶ ἥττης· οὔτε γὰρ ἐρίζειν θεοὺς οὔτε ἡττᾶσθαι θέμις οὔτε ὑπ´ ἀλλήλων ἅτε φίλων οὔτε ὑπὸ ἄλλων κρειττόνων, ἀλλὰ πράττειν ἀκωλύτως τὰ σφέτερα ἔργα μετὰ πάσης φιλίας ἀεὶ πάντων κοινῆς· τῶν μὲν φανερωτάτων πορευομένων ἑκάστου καθ´ ἑαυτόν, οὐ πλανωμένων ἄλλως ἀνόητον πλάνην, ἀλλὰ χορείαν εὐδαίμονα χορευόντων μετά τε νοῦ καὶ φρονήσεως τῆς ἄκρας· τοῦ δὲ λοιποῦ πλήθους ὑπὸ τῆς κοινῆς φορᾶς ἀγομένου μιᾷ γνώμῃ καὶ ὁρμῇ τοῦ ξύμπαντος οὐρανοῦ. (36,23) μίαν γὰρ δὴ ταύτην καθαρῶς εὐδαίμονα πολιτείαν εἴτε καὶ πόλιν χρὴ καλεῖν, τὴν θεῶν πρὸς ἀλλήλους κοινωνίαν, ἐάν τε καὶ ξύμπαν τὸ λογικὸν περιλάβῃ τις, ἀνθρώπων σὺν θεοῖς ἀριθμουμένων, ὡς παῖδες σὺν ἀνδράσι λέγονται μετέχειν πόλεως, φύσει πολῖται ὄντες, οὐ τῷ φρονεῖν τε καὶ πράττειν τὰ τῶν πολιτῶν οὐδὲ τῷ κοινωνεῖν τοῦ νόμου, ἀξύνετοι ὄντες αὐτοῦ. ἐκ δὲ τῶν ἄλλων πανταχοῦ πασῶν σχεδὸν ἁπλῶς ἡμαρτημένων τε καὶ φαύλων πρὸς τὴν ἄκραν εὐθύτητα τοῦ θείου καὶ μακαρίου νόμου καὶ τῆς ὀρθῆς διοικήσεως, ὅμως δὲ πρὸς τὸ παρὸν εὐπορήσομεν παράδειγμα τῆς ἐπιεικέστερον ἐχούσης πρὸς τὴν παντελῶς διεφθαρμένην, ὡς ἐν πᾶσι νοσοῦσι τόν γ´ ἐλαφρότατα διάγοντα τῷ κάκιστα διακειμένῳ παραβάλλοντες. (36,24) ἐγὼ μὲν οὖν πρός τι τοιοῦτον ὥρμων τῷ λόγῳ. μεταξὺ δὲ τῶν παρόντων εἷς ἐφθέγξατο εἰς τὸ μέσον, ὅσπερ ἦν πρεσβύτατος αὐτῶν καὶ μέγιστον ἀξίωμα ἔχων, εἶπε δὲ πάνυ εὐλαβούμενος, Μηδαμῶς, ὦ ξένε, ἄγροικον μηδὲ βαρβαρικὸν ἡγήσῃ τὸ τοιοῦτον, ὅτι μεταξὺ λέγοντί σοι ἐμποδὼν ἐγενόμην. παρ´ ὑμῖν μὲν γὰρ οὐκ ἔθος ἐστὶ τὸ τοιοῦτο διὰ τὸ πολλὴν ἀφθονίαν εἶναι τῶν ἐκ φιλοσοφίας λόγων καὶ περὶ παντὸς ὅτου ἂν ἐπιθυμῇ τις ἐξεῖναι παρὰ πολλῶν ἀκοῦσαι· παρ´ ἡμῖν δὲ ὥσπερ τέρας τι τοῦτο πέφηνε τὸ σὲ ἡμῖν ἀφικέσθαι. (36,25) τὸ δὲ λοιπὸν σχεδόν τι δεῦρο ἀφικνοῦνται ὀνόματι Ἕλληνες, τῇ δὲ ἀληθείᾳ βαρβαρώτεροι ἡμῶν, ἔμποροι καὶ ἀγοραῖοι, ῥάκη φαῦλα καὶ οἶνον πονηρὸν εἰσκομίζοντες καὶ τά γε παρ´ ἡμῶν οὐδὲν βελτίω τούτων ἐξαγόμενοι. σὲ δὲ αὐτὸς ἡμῖν ὁ Ἀχιλλεὺς ἔοικε δεῦρο ἀπὸ τῆς νήσου διαπέμψαι, καί σε πάνυ μὲν ἡδέως ὁρῶμεν, πάνυ δὲ ἡδέως ἀκούομεν ὅ,τι ἂν λέγῃς. οὐ μέντοι πολύν τινα χρόνον ἡγούμεθα ἔσεσθαι τοῦτον οὐδὲ βουλόμεθα, ἀλλά σε εὖ πράξαντα οἴκαδε κατελθεῖν τὴν ταχίστην. (36,26) νῦν οὖν ἐπεὶ ἥψω τῷ λόγῳ τῆς θείας διοκήσεως, αὐτός τε ἀνεπτέρωμαι δαιμονίως καὶ τούσδε ὁρῶ πάντας ὀργῶντας πρὸς ἐκεῖνον τὸν λόγον· καὶ γὰρ ἡμῖν ἔδοξας μεγαλοπρεπῶς καὶ τοῦ πράγματος οὐκ ἀναξίως ὅσα εἶπες εἰρηκέναι καὶ ὡς ἂν μάλιστα ἡμεῖς βουλοίμεθα ἀκοῦσαι. τῆς μὲν γὰρ ἀκριβεστέρας ταύτης φιλοσοφίας ἄπειροί ἐσμεν, Ὁμήρου δέ, ὡς οἶσθα, ἐρασταὶ καί τινες οὐ πολλοὶ Πλάτωνος· ὧν δὴ κἀμὲ ὁρᾷς ὄντα, ἀεί ποτε ἐντυγχάνοντα τοῖς ἐκείνου ὅπως ἂν δύνωμαι· καίτοι ἴσως ἄτοπον βαρβαρίζοντα τῶν πολιτῶν μάλιστα τῷ ἑλληνικωτάτῳ καὶ σοφωτάτῳ χαίρειν καὶ ξυνεῖναι, καθάπερ εἴ τις μικροῦ τυφλὸς τὸ μὲν ἄλλο φῶς ἀποστρέφοιτο, πρὸς αὐτὸν δὲ τὸν ἥλιον ἀναβλέποι. (36,27) ἔχει μὲν δὴ τὰ ἡμέτερα οὕτως. σὺ δὲ εἰ θέλεις πᾶσιν ἡμῖν χαρίσασθαι, τὸν μὲν ὑπὲρ τῆς θνητῆς πόλεως ἀναβαλοῦ λόγον, ἐὰν ἄρα σχολὴν ἡμῖν οἱ γείτονες παράσχωσιν εἰς αὔριον καὶ μὴ δέῃ προσγυμνάζεσθαι αὐτοῖς, ὥσπερ ἔθος ἡμῖν τὸ πολύ· περὶ δὲ τῆς θείας εἴτε πόλεως εἴτε διακοσμήσεως φίλον σοι καλεῖν, εἰπὲ ὅπῃ τε καὶ ὅπως ἔχει, ὡς δύνασαι ἐγγύτατα τείνων τῆς τοῦ Πλάτωνος ἐλευθερίας περὶ τὴν φράσιν, οἷον δὴ καὶ ἄρτι ποιεῖν ἡμῖν ἔδοξας. εἰ γὰρ μηδενὸς ἄλλου, τῆς γε φωνῆς ξυνίεμεν ὑπὸ συνηθείας ὅτι οὐ σμικρὸν οὐδὲ πόρρω τοῦ Ὁμήρου φθέγγεται. (36,28) κἀγὼ σφόδρα γε ἥσθην τῇ ἁπλότητι τοῦ πρεσβύτου, καὶ γελάσας εἶπον, Ὦ φίλε Ἱεροσῶν, εἴ με ἐκέλευες χθὲς εἰσβεβληκότων ὑμῖν τῶν πολεμίων λαβόντα ὅπλα ὥσπερ τὸν Ἀχιλλέα μάχεσθαι, τὸ μὲν ἕτερον ἐπείσθην ἄν, πειρώμενος ἀμύνεσθαι ὑπὲρ ἀνδρῶν φίλων, τὸ δὲ ἕτερον οὐκ ἂν οἶμαι ἐδυνάμην, καίτοι σφόδρα βουλόμενος, ὁμοίως τῷ Ἀχιλλεῖ ἀγωνίζεσθαι. καὶ νῦν ὧν κελεύεις ποιήσω τὸ ἕτερον, προθυμήσομαι εἰπεῖν τὸν λόγον, ὡς ἂν ἐγὼ δύνωμαι κατ´ ἐμαυτόν· ἀνδράσι δὲ προτέροισιν ἐριζέμεν οὐκ ἐθελήσω, οὔτε Πλάτωνι οὔτε Ὁμήρῳ. οὐ γάρ τοι οὐδὲ τῷ Εὐρύτῳ φησὶ συνενεγκεῖν ὁ ποιητὴς ὅτι ἤριζε πρὸς τοὺς κρείττονας. οὐ μέντοι σπουδῆς γε, ἔφην, οὐδὲν ἀπολείψομεν. (36,29) ταῦτα δὲ εἰπὼν πρὸς ἐκεῖνον οὐδὲν ἧττον ὑπεκίνουν καὶ ἀνεφερόμην τρόπον τινὰ ἀναμνησθεὶς Πλάτωνός τε καὶ Ὁμήρου. τὸ μὲν δὴ τῆς πόλεως οὕτως, ἔφην, δεῖ ἀκούειν ὡς οὐκ ἄντικρυς τῶν ἡμετέρων τὸν κόσμον ἀποφαινομένων πόλιν· ἐναντίον γὰρ ἂν ὑπῆρχε τοῦτο τῷ λόγῳ τῷ περὶ τῆς πόλεως, ἥν , ὥσπερ οὖν εἶπον, σύστημα ἀνθρώπων ὡρίσαντο·

[36,20] Well, in that way also the term 'city' is said to mean a group of anthropoi dwelling in the same place and governed by law. It is immediately evident, therefore, that that term belongs to none of those communities which are called cities but are without wisdom and without law. Consequently not even in referring to Nineveh could the poet use the term 'city,' since Nineveh is given over to folly. For just as that person is not even an anthropos who does not also possess the attribute of reason, so that community is not even a city which lacks obedience to law. And it could never be obedient to law if it is foolish and disorderly. 21 Perhaps, then, someone might inquire whether, when the rulers and leaders of a community are men of prudence and wisdom, and it is in accordance with their judgement that the rest are governed, lawfully and sanely, such a community may be called sane and (p441) law-abiding and really a city because of those who govern it; just as a chorus might possibly be termed musical provided its leader were musical and provided further that the other members followed this lead and uttered no sound contrary to the melody that he set — or only slight sounds and indistinctly uttered. 22 For no one knows of a good city made wholly of good elements as having existed in the past, that is, a city of mortal men, nor is it worth while to conceive of such a city as possibly arising in the future, unless it be a city of the blessed gods in heaven, by no means motionless or inactive, but vigorous and progressive, its guides and leaders being gods, exempt from strife and defeat. For it is impious to suppose that gods indulge in strife or are subject to defeat, either by one another, friends as they are, or by more powerful beings; on the contrary, we must think of them as performing their several functions without let or hindrance and with unvarying friendship of all toward all in common, the most conspicuous among them each pursuing an independent course — I don't mean wandering aimlessly and senselessly, but rather dancing a dance of happiness coupled with wisdom and supreme intelligence — while the rest of the celestial host are swept along by the general movement, the entire heaven having one single purpose and impulse. 23 For that, indeed, is the only constitution or city that may be called genuinely happy — the partnership of god with god; even if you include with the gods also everything that has the faculty of reason, mankind being thus included as boys are said to share (p443) in citizenship with men, being citizens by birth though not by reason of conceiving and performing the tasks of citizens or sharing in the law, of which they have no comprehension. However, if we take communities of a different kind, though everywhere and in every instance, we may almost say, they are absolutely faulty and worthless as compared with the supreme righteousness of the divine and blessed law and its proper administration, still for our present purpose we shall be supplied with examples of the type that is fairly equitable when compared with that which is utterly corrupt, just as among persons who are all ill we compare the man who had the lightest case with the one who is in worst condition." 24 Well then, I was launching forth upon that general line in my discussion, when one of those who were present, the eldest in the company and held in high esteem, spoke up, interrupting me, and in a very guarded manner said, "Stranger, pray do not think it boorish or barbarous of me to intervene in the midst of your discourse. For while in your country such conduct is not good manners, because of the great abundance of philosophical discussions and because one may listen to many men upon any topic he may desire, in ours this visit of yours to our city seems almost a miraculous event. 25 As a usual thing those who come here are nominally Greeks but actually more barbarous than ourselves, traders and market-men, fellows who import cheap rags and vile wine and export in exchange products of no better quality. But you would appear to have been sent to us by Achilles himself from his holy isle, and we are very glad to see you and very glad also to listen to whatever (p445) you have to say. However, we do not believe that this visit of yours is to be of very long duration, nor do we desire it to be, but rather that you may have a prosperous voyage home as speedily as possible. 26 Now therefore, since in your remarks you have touched upon the divine form of government, I myself am tremendously excited, and I see that my friends here also are all worked up in anticipation of that theme. The fact is that in our opinion everything you have said has been magnificently expressed, in a manner not unworthy of your theme, and precisely as we should most desire to hear. For although we are unacquainted with this more refined form of philosophy, yet we are, as you know, lovers of Homer, and some, not many, lovers of Plato too. To this latter group I myself belong, for I always read his writings as best I can; and yet it may perhaps seem odd that one who speaks the poorest Greek of all the people of Borysthenes should delight in the man who is most Greek and most wise and should cultivate that man's society, quite as if a person almost wholly blind were to shun every other light but turn his gaze upward to the sun itself. 27 "This, then, is our situation; and if you wish to do us all a favour, postpone your discussion of the mortal city — possibly our neighbours may after all grant us leisure tomorrow, and not compel us to exert ourselves against them as is generally our wont — and tell us instead about that divine city or government, whichever you prefer to call it, stating where it is and what it is like, aiming as closely as possible (p447) at Plato's nobility of expression, just as but now you seemed to us to do. For if we understand nothing else, we do at least understand his language because of our long familiarity with it, for it has a lofty sound, not far removed from the voice of Homer." 28 I in turn was exceedingly pleased with the simple frankness of the old gentleman, and with a laugh I said, "My dear Hieroson, if yesterday when the enemy made their attack you had bidden me to take up arms and give battle like Achilles, I should have obeyed one part of your injunction, endeavouring to come to the aid of men who are my friends; but the other part, I fancy, I could not have managed, however much I should have wished to do so, to fight as your Achilles did. Similarly in the present instance also I will do part of what you bid — I will strive to tell my story as best I can in my own way; Though ancient heroes I'll not try to match, whether it be Plato or Homer. For, you remember, the poet says that in the case of Eurytus himself such rivalry worked not to his advantage, since it was aimed at his superiors. However, I shall not lack for devotion," I added. 29 Yet, despite my brave words to Hieroson, I was moved and heaved a sigh, as it were, when I bethought me of Homer and Plato. (p449) "Well then," said I, "the term 'city' must be taken on the understanding that our sect is not literally defining the universe as a city; for that would be in direct conflict with our doctrine of the city, which, as I have said, the Stoics define as an organization of human beings; and at the same time it would possibly not be suitable or convincing,