[7,140] τάχ´ οὖν λέγοι τις ἂν ἀγροικότερον οὕτω πως· Ὦ σοφοὶ νομοθέται καὶ ἄρχοντες οἱ παραδεξάμενοι τὰ τοιαῦτα ἀπ´ ἀρχῆς, ὡς δή τι θαυμαστὸν εὑρηκότες ταῖς πόλεσιν ὑμεῖς σωφροσύνης φάρμακον, ὅπως ὑμῖν μὴ τὰ φανερὰ ταῦτα καὶ ἄκλειστα οἰκήματα τὰς κεκλειμένας οἰκίας καὶ τοὺς ἔνδοθεν θαλάμους ἀναπετάσῃ, καὶ τοὺς ἔξω καὶ φανερῶς ἀσελγαίνοντας ἀπὸ μικρᾶς δαπάνης ἐπὶ τὰς ἐλευθέρας καὶ σεμνὰς τρέψῃ γυναῖκας μετὰ πολλῶν χρημάτων τε καὶ δώρων, τὸ σφόδρα εὔωνον καὶ μετ´ ἐξουσίας οὐκέτι στέργοντας, ἀλλ´ αὐτὸ δὴ τὸ κεκωλυμένον ἐν φόβῳ τε καὶ πολλοῖς ἀναλώμασι διώκοντας. (7,141) ὄψεσθε δὲ αὐτό, ἐμοὶ δοκεῖν, ἀκριβέστερον, ἐὰν σκοπῆτε· παρ´ οἷς γὰρ καὶ τὰ τῶν μοιχειῶν μεγαλοπρεπέστερόν πως παραπέμπεται, πολλῆς καὶ σφόδρα φιλανθρώπου τῆς εὐγνωμοσύνης τυγχάνοντα, τὰ μὲν πολλὰ ὑπὸ χρηστότητος οὐκ αἰσθανομένων τῶν ἀνδρῶν, τὰ δέ τινα οὐχ ὁμολογούντων εἰδέναι, ξένους δὲ καὶ φίλους καὶ ξυγγενεῖς τοὺς μοιχοὺς καλουμένους ἀνεχομένων, καὶ αὐτῶν ἐνίοτε φιλοφρονουμένων καὶ παρακαλούντων ἐν ταῖς ἑορταῖς καὶ θυσίαις ἐπὶ τὰς ἑστιάσεις, (7,142) ὡς ἂν οἶμαι τοὺς οἰκειοτάτους, ἐπὶ δὲ τοῖς σφόδρα ἐκδήλοις καὶ φανεροῖς μετρίας τὰς ὀργὰς ποιουμένων· παρ´ οἷς, φημί, ταῦθ´ οὕτως ἐπιεικῶς ἐξάγεται τὰ περὶ τὰς γυναῖκας, οὐδὲ περὶ τῶν παρθένων ἐκεῖ θαρρῆσαι ῥᾴδιον τῆς κορείας οὐδὲ τὸν ὑμέναιον ὡς ἀληθῶς καὶ δικαίως ᾀδόμενον ἐν τοῖς παρθενικοῖς γάμοις πιστεῦσαί ποτε. (7,143) ἢ οὐκ ἀνάγκη πολλὰ ἐοικότα ξυμβαίνειν αὐτόθι τοῖς παλαιοῖς μύθοις, δίχα γε τῆς τῶν πατέρων ὀργῆς καὶ πολυπραγμοσύνης, {ἀλλὰ} πολλῶν μιμουμένων τοὺς τῶν θεῶν ἔρωτας λεγομένους, χρυσοῦ τε πολλοῦ διαρρέοντος διὰ τῶν ὀρόφων καὶ πάνυ ῥᾳδίως, ἅτε οὐ χαλκῶν ὄντων οὐδὲ λιθίνων τῶν οἰκημάτων, (7,144) καὶ νὴ Δία ἀργύρου στάζοντος οὐ κατ´ ὀλίγον οὐδ´ εἰς τοὺς τῶν παρθένων κόλπους μόνον, ἀλλ´ εἴς τε μητέρων καὶ τροφῶν καὶ παιδαγωγῶν, καὶ ἄλλων πολλῶν καὶ καλῶν δώρων τῶν μὲν κρύφα εἰσιόντων διὰ τῶν στεγῶν, ἔστι δ´ ὧν φανερῶς κατ´ αὐτάς που τὰς κλισίας; (7,145) τί δ´; ἐν ποταμοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ κρηνῶν οὐκ εἰκὸς ὅμοια πολλὰ γενέσθαι τοῖς πρότερον λεγομένοις ὑπὸ τῶν ποιητῶν; πλὴν ἴσως γε οὐ δημόσια γιγνόμενα οὐδ´ ἐν τῷ φανερῷ, κατ´ οἰκίας δὲ οὕτως εὐδαίμονας κήπων τε καὶ προαστείων πολυτελεῖς ἐπαύλεις ἔν τισι νυμφῶσι κατεσκευασμένοις καὶ θαυμαστοῖς ἄλσεσιν, ἅτε οὐ περὶ πενιχρὰς οὐδὲ πενήτων βασιλέων οἵας ὑδροφορεῖν τε καὶ παίζειν παρὰ τοῖς ποταμοῖς, ψυχρὰ λουτρὰ λουομένας καὶ ἐν αἰγιαλοῖς ἀναπεπταμένοις, ἀλλὰ μακαρίας καὶ μακαρίων γονέων, ἐν βασιλικαῖς καταγωγαῖς ἴδια πάντα ταῦτα ἐχούσαις, πολὺ κρείττονα καὶ μεγαλοπρεπέστερα τῶν κοινῶν. (7,146) ἀλλ´ ἴσως γε οὐδὲν ἧττον ἔμελλον ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ πόλει παῖδας προσδοκᾶν ἐσομένους, οἷον Ὅμηρος εἴρηκεν Εὔδωρον, υἱὸν Ἑρμοῦ καὶ Πολυδώρας, ὑποκοριζόμενος αὐτὸν οἶμαι κατὰ τὴν γένεσιν, παρθένιος, τὸν ἔτικτε χορῷ καλὴ Πολυδώρη. (7,147) σχεδὸν δὲ καὶ παρὰ Λακεδαιμονίοις ἔτυχόν τινες ταύτης τῆς ἐπωνυμίας τῶν οὕτως γενομένων, Παρθενίαι κληθέντες συχνοί· ὥστ´, εἰ μὴ διεφθείροντο οἱ πλείους τῶν ἐν ταῖς οὕτως τρυφώσαις πόλεσι γιγνομένων, ἅτε οὐδαμῶς οἶμαι δαιμονίου τυγχάνοντες ἐπιμελείας, (7,148) οὐδὲν ἂν ἐκώλυε πάντα μεστὰ ἡρώων εἶναι. νῦν δὲ οἱ μὲν ἀπόλλυνται παραχρῆμα· ὅσοι δ´ ἂν καὶ φανῶσι, κρύφα ἐν δούλου σχήματι μένουσιν ἄχρι γήρως, ἅτε οὐδὲν αὐτοὺς δυναμένων τῶν σπειράντων προσωφελεῖν. εἶεν δή, παρ´ οἷς ἂν καὶ τὰ περὶ τὰς κόρας οὕτως ἁπλῶς ἔχῃ, (7,149) τί χρὴ προσδοκᾶν τοὺς κόρους, ποίας τινὸς παιδείας καὶ ἀγωγῆς τυγχάνειν; ἔσθ´ ὅπως ἂν ἀπόσχοιτο τῆς τῶν ἀρρένων λώβης καὶ φθορᾶς τό γε ἀκόλαστον γένος, τοῦτον ἱκανὸν καὶ σαφῆ ποιησάμενον ὅρον τὸν τῆς φύσεως, ἀλλ´ οὐκ ἂν ἐμπιμπλάμενον πάντα τρόπον τῆς περὶ γυναῖκας ἀκρασίας διακορὲς γενόμενον τῆς ἡδονῆς ταύτης ζητοίη ἑτέραν μείζω καὶ παρανομωτέραν ὕβριν;

[7,140] Perhaps now someone may say, rather rudely, something like this: "O you wise rulers and lawgivers, who tolerated such practices in the beginning and imagined you had actually discovered some wondrous elixir to produce chastity in our cities, your motive being to keep these open and unbarred brothels from contaminating your barred homes and inner chambers, and keep men who practise their excesses abroad and openly at little cost from turning to your free-born and respected wives with their many bribes and gifts!" For men do grow weary of what is excessively cheap and freely permitted, but pursue in fear and at great expense what is forbidden simply because it is forbidden. 141 I think you will see this more clearly if you just consider. For where men condone even the matter of adultery in a somewhat magnificent fashion and the practice of it finds great and most charitable consideration, where husbands in their simplicity do not notice most things and do (p369) not admit knowledge of some things but suffer the adulterers to be called guests and friends and kinsmen, at times even entertaining these themselves and inviting them to their tables at festivals and sacrifices as, I imagine, they might invite their bosom friends, 142 and display but moderate anger at actions that are most glaring and open — where, I say, these intrigues of the married women are carried on with such an air of respectability, in that community it will not be easy to feel quite sure of the maidenhood of the unmarried girls or ever to be confident that the words of the wedding song sung at the marriage of the girls are truthful and honest. 143 Is it not inevitable that in these cities many things occur which are like the old legends? — omitting, of course, the angry and meddlesome fathers — that a great many persons copy the storied amours of the gods and gold pours down in showers through the roofs (and with little difficulty, since the chambers are not of brass or stone), 144 and yes, by heavens, that silver trickles in no small stream nor into the laps of the maidens alone, but into those of mothers also and nurses and tutors — to say nothing of many other handsome gifts which sometimes enter stealthily through the roof and sometimes openly no doubt at the very bedside! 145 Is it not likely, too, that much occurs in rivers and beside springs which is like those happenings of ancient times that the poets describe? Only perhaps they do not occur in the open publicly, but in homes of truly great felicity, (p371) at costly lodges in parks and city suburbs, in luxurious artificial bowers and in splendid groves; for it is not a question of poor daughters of penniless kings, the kind that carry water and play on beaches beside the rivers, bathing in cool water, or on wide-spreading beaches of the sea; no, they are the wealthy daughters of wealthy parents in princely establishments that possess all these things in private far surpassing anything in public splendour and magnificence. 146 But perhaps they would nevertheless be expecting children to be born in that city, children of the kind that Homer refers to when he mentions Eudorus, son of Hermes and Polydora, and makes use of an euphemism, as I see it, in referring to his birth: "Virgin's son whom bore Polydora, fair in the chorus." 147 I suspect that at Sparta as well some boys of a similar paternity received this appellation, since quite a number are called Parthenians. Consequently, if the majority born in such immoral cities did not perish through utter lack, I imagine, of divine protection, then nothing would save the world from being overrun by demigods. 148 But as it is, some die at birth, while those that do survive live on to old age in obscurity in the status of slaves, since those who gave them being can give them no further support. Now then, in a city where the girls' condition (p373) is as bad as we have described, 149 what are we to expect the boys to be? What education and training should we expect them to receive? Is there any possibility that this lecherous class would refrain from dishonouring and corrupting the males, making their clear and sufficient limit that set by nature? Or will it not, while it satisfies its lust for women in every conceivable way, find itself grown weary of this pleasure, and then seek some other worse and more lawless form of wantonness?